All this happened, more or less.

An immaculate conception discussion NY-style

http://syndicated.livejournal.com/overheardnyc/1027904.html

overheardnyc is da best!

"Credo quia absurdum is the cry of the try Christian."

Marcello Craveri, The life of Jesus. p. 113. ISBN 66-30412

Wow! See also:

p. 114. "For verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to younder place, and it shal remove; and nothing shal be impossible unto you."

p. 117. "To start with Augustine's definition, a miracle is anything that happens contra quam est not natura - that is, in defiance of the natural laws known to us.

Note: cures came first, then the miracles.

p. 125. "Jesus remarked bitterly: 'No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment.' New ideas never suit the stubborn mentality of the conservative, rooted in his traditional customs."

cf: grafting new solutions onto an old system. also: new wine into an old bottle.